Kerre Woodham Mornings Podcast by Newstalk ZB

We thought we'd start with the announcement on law and order and Corrections, given that this was one of the big drivers for National and ACT, and indeed New Zealand First’s election campaigns, and one in which the coalition government was elected upon.  

Still, when you've got a big announcement to make on law and order, one of the foundations of your government's policies, it does pay to get it right. I mean numbers. I know, but pesky journalists will drill you on them. It was unfortunate for Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell that he muddied the waters, as the PM and put it, around numbers when they made the announcement yesterday as that became the focus, not the actual announcement of what the government was promising to deliver. Still, we all make mistakes. I'm sure the announcement, whatever the numbers, will be appreciated by many New Zealanders.  

It's a $1.9 billion investment that will bring hundreds more new beds to Waikeria Prison, deliver 685 new frontline staff at Corrections, including 470 Corrections officers who will be recruited and trained to respond to growing prison numbers. And $78 million, and this is one I was really pleased to see, $78 million to extend rehabilitation programs for the 45% of prisoners who are on remand. At the moment if you're on remand, you don't have access to rehabilitation programs. With this announcement, you will.  

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon did the number crunching this morning. How many beds are there going to be in Waikeria? Well, I'll tell you, he said, there are 455 beds there currently. There are 600 beds that will be added next year. There's a further 810 beds and that means you'll end up with Waikeria with capacity for more than 1800 beds in total. That sounds like a hell of a lot. A super prison, if you will.  

Floyd du Plessis, the corrections union spokesperson said, there is no problem with super prisons, no problem with having a large number of prisoners in one place. To me, intuitively, instinctively, there seems to be something very wrong with housing so many people in one spot. I'd rather a more bespoke boutique approach to trying to rehabilitate people and punish them, you know, which is, after all, what they're there for. It's a deprivation of their liberties. It's supposed to be a punishment, I get that, but I'm really glad to see that there is money in there for rehab. He said there is no problem with the super prisons, but all I can see in my mind's eye are those huge American prisons, which just look like places where souls go to die, really.  

But what you're seeing, says Prime Minister Christopher Luxon, is a big focus on law and order. They've got tougher laws on gangs. They've got serious young offenders and military academies coming for them. They've put the three strikes back in. He says we're recruiting an extra 500 police officers, little bit hard to do until the pay dispute is settled. And now we've got this big package of $1.9 billion for Corrections, he says. We're also going to work really hard on social investment and rehab for prisoners as well. Again, that is something I think we really, really need to see the prevention as well as the “cure”. And I'd say cure with inverted commas because I don't think going to prison cures many people.  

So, I'd love to hear your take on this. Is locking people up, more of them, going to make a difference long term? Probably not but locking them up short term surely will. While you're locking people up so they cannot just be put back out onto the streets and continue to commit crime, which is what we saw over the last few years. We work on social investment, the programs that work with young offenders, we keep. We invest even more money in if we have to. We work with the families where these law breakers are coming from. For some people, going to prison is enough to scare them straight. For those who haven't really got their hearts into being a crim, for those who have the foundations in their childhood to have choices, to be able to say, you know what? This is not for me. I don't like it. They can turn themselves around.  

For those that are just fed up of being inside, not seeing their kids, not seeing the partner that they love, they've finally met a good one. They don't want to stuff it up. That generally, anecdotally from what ex-cons have told me, is what turns them around the most. Having the love of a good woman, as nobody has yet said it was the love of a good same sex partner, so I'm going to go with woman. The love of a good woman and their kids, that's made them think, ‘for all that is holy, I am 36 years old. I don't want to keep doing this. I don't want to keep going on the merry go round I've been on for the last 18 years.’ It has to come from the prisoner themself; to say I don't want to do this anymore. And then they need the help to be able to support them and to going straight. 

So sure, lock them up in the short term, but we're going to have to have a long-term view of social investment, rehabilitation, and giving these predominantly men, a stake in society to say you can belong if you if you choose to, it's going to be worth your while to join society, to be a part of this community. So, we've all got a part to play there.   

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